by
Lewis Carroll
CHAPTER IV
TWEEDLEDUM AND TWEEDLEDEE
THEY were standing under a tree, each with an arm round the other's neck, and Alice knew which was which in a moment, because one of them had "DUM" embroidered on his collar, and the other "DEE". `I suppose they've each got "TWEEDLE" round at the back of the collar,' she said to herself.
They stood so still that she quite forgot they were alive, and she was just going round to see if the word "TWEEDLE" was written at the back of each collar, when she was startled by a voice coming from the one marked "DUM".
`If you think we're wax-works,' he said, `you ought to pay, you know. Wax-works weren't made to be looked at for nothing. Nohow.'
`Contrariwise,' added the one marked "DEE", `if you think we're alive, you ought to speak.'
`I'm sure I'm very sorry,' was all Alice could say; for the words of the old song kept ringing through her head like the ticking of a clock, and she could hardly help saying them out loud:
Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle!
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel!
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel.'
`I know what you're thinking about,' said Tweedledum; `but it isn't so, nohow.'
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
`I was thinking,' Alice said politely, `which is the best way out of this wood: it's getting so dark. Would you tell me, please?'
But the fat little men only looked at each other and grinned.
They looked so exactly like a couple of great schoolboys, that Alice couldn't help pointing her finger at Tweedledum, and saying `First Boy!'
`Nohow!' Tweedledum cried out briskly, and shut his mouth up again with a snap.
`Next Boy!' said Alice, passing on to Tweedledee, though she felt quite certain he would only shout out `Contrariwise!' and so he did.
`You've begun wrong!' cried Tweedledum. `The first thing in a visit is to say "How d'ye do?" and shake hands!' And here the two brothers gave each other a hug, and then they held out the two hands that were free, to shake hands with her.
Alice did not like shaking hands with either of them first, for fear of hurting the other one's feelings; so, as the best way out of the difficulty, she took hold of both hands at once: the next moment they were dancing round in a ring. This seemed quite natural (she remembered afterwards), and she was not even surprised to hear music playing: it seemed to come from the tree under which they were dancing, and it was done (as well as she could make it out) by the branches rubbing one across the other, like fiddles and fiddle-sticks.
`But it certainly was funny,' (Alice said afterwards, when she was telling her sister the history of all this), `to find myself singing "Here we go round the mulberry bush." I don't know when I began it, but somehow I felt as if I'd been singing it a long long time!'
The other two dancers were fat, and very soon out of breath. `Four times round is enough for one dance,' Tweedledum panted out, and they left off dancing as suddenly as they had begun: the music stopped at the same moment.
Then they let go of Alice's hands, and stood looking at her for a minute: there was a rather awkward pause, as Alice didn't know how to begin a conversation with people she had just been dancing with. `It would never do to say "How d'ye do?" now,' she said to herself: `we seem to have got beyond that, somehow!'
`I hope you're not much tired?' she said at last.
`Nohow. And thank you very much for asking,' said Tweedledum.
`So much obliged!' added Tweedledee. `You like poetry?'
`Ye-es, pretty well--some poetry,' Alice said doubtfully. `Would you tell me which road leads out of the wood?'
`What shall I repeat to her?' said Tweedledee, looking round at Tweedledum with great solemn eyes, and not noticing Alice's question.
`"The Walrus and the Carpenter" is the longest,' Tweedledum replied, giving his brother an affectionate hug.
Tweedledee began instantly:
`The sun was shining--'
Here Alice ventured to interrupt him. `If it's very long,' she said, as politely as she could, `would you please tell me first which road--'
Tweedledee smiled gently, and began again:
`The sun was shining on the sea,
Shining with all his might:
He did his very best to make
The billows smooth and bright--
And this was odd, because it was
The middle of the night.
The moon was shining sulkily,
Because she thought the sun
Had got no business to be there
After the day was done--
"It's very rude of him", she said,
"To come and spoil the fun!"
The sea was wet as wet could be,
The sands were dry as dry.
You could not see a cloud, because
No cloud was in the sky:
No birds were flying overhead--
There were no birds to fly.
The Walrus and the Carpenter
Were walking close at hand:
They wept like anything to see
Such quantities of sand:
"If this were only cleared away,"
They said, "it would be grand!"
"If seven maids with seven mops
Swept it for half a year,
Do you suppose," the Walrus said,
"That they could get it clear?"
"I doubt it," said the Carpenter,
And shed a bitter tear.
"O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
The Walrus did beseech.
"A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each."
The eldest Oyster looked at him,
But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head--
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed.
But four young Oysters hurried up,
All eager for the treat:
Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
Their shoes were clean and neat--
And this was odd, because, you know,
They hadn't any feet.
Four other Oysters followed them,
And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
And more, and more, and more--
All hopping through the frothy waves,
And scrambling to the shore.
The Walrus and the Carpenter
Walked on a mile or so,
And then they rested on a rock
Conveniently low:
And all the little Oysters stood
And waited in a row.
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."
"But wait a bit," the Oysters cried,
"Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!"
"No hurry!" said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.
"A loaf of bread," the Walrus said,
"Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
Are very good indeed--
Now, if you're ready, Oysters dear,
We can begin to feed."
"But not on us!" the Oysters cried,
Turning a little blue.
"After such kindness, that would be
A dismal thing to do!"
"The night is fine," the Walrus said.
"Do you admire the view?
"It was so kind of you to come!
And you are very nice!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"Cut us another slice.
I wish you were not quite so deaf--
I've had to ask you twice!"
"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick.
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"
"I weep for you," the Walrus said:
"I deeply sympathise."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.
"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?"
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.'
`I like the Walrus best,' said Alice: `because he was a little sorry for the poor oysters.'
`He ate more than the Carpenter, though,' said Tweedledee. `You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise.'
`That was mean!' Alice said indignantly. `Then I like the Carpenter best--if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus.'
`But he ate as many as he could get,' said Tweedledum.
This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, `Well! They were both very unpleasant characters--' Here she checked herself in some alarm, at hearing something that sounded to her like the puffing of a large steam-engine in the wood near them, though she feared it was more likely to be a wild beast. `Are there any lions or tigers about here?' she asked timidly.
`It's only the Red King snoring,' said Tweedledee.
`Come and look at him!' the brothers cried, and they each took one of Alice's hands, and led her up to where the King was sleeping.
`Isn't he a lovely sight?' said Tweedledum.
Alice couldn't say honestly that he was. He had a tall red night-cap on, with a tassel, and he was lying crumpled up into a sort of untidy heap, and snoring loud-- `fit to snore his head off!' as Tweedledum remarked.
`I'm afraid he'll catch cold with lying on the damp grass,' said Alice, who was a very thoughtful little girl.
`He's dreaming now,' said Tweedledee: `and what do you think he's dreaming about?'
Alice said `Nobody can guess that.'
`Why, about you!' Tweedledee exclaimed, clapping his hands triumphantly. `And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?'
`Where I am now, of course,' said Alice.
`Not you!' Tweedledee retorted contemptuously. `You'd be nowhere. Why, you're only a sort of thing in his dream!'
`If that there King was to wake,' added Tweedledum, `you'd go out-- bang!--just like a candle!'
`I shouldn't!' Alice exclaimed indignantly. `Besides, if I'm only a sort of thing in his dream, what are you, I should like to know?'
`Ditto,' said Tweedledum.
`Ditto, ditto!' cried Tweedledee.
He shouted this so loud that Alice couldn't help saying `Hush! You'll be waking him, I'm afraid, if you make so much noise.'
`Well, it's no use your talking about waking him,' said Tweedledum, `when you're only one of the things in his dream. You know very well you're not real.'
`I am real!' said Alice, and began to cry.
`You won't make yourself a bit realer by crying,' Tweedledee remarked: `there's nothing to cry about.'
`If I wasn't real,' Alice said--half laughing through her tears, it all seemed so ridiculous--`I shouldn't be able to cry.'
`I hope you don't suppose those are real tears?' Tweedledum interrupted in a tone of great contempt.
`I know they're talking nonsense,' Alice thought to herself: `and it's foolish to cry about it.' So she brushed away her tears, and went on, as cheerfully as she could, `At any rate, I'd better be getting out of the wood, for really it's coming on very dark. Do you think it's going to rain?'
Tweedledum spread a large umbrella over himself and his brother, and looked up into it. `No, I don't think it is,' he said: `at least--not under here. Nohow.'
`But it may rain outside?'
`It may--if it chooses,' said Tweedledee: `we've no objection. Contrariwise.'
`Selfish things!' thought Alice, and she was just going to say `Good-night' and leave them, when Tweedledum sprang out from under the umbrella, and seized her by the wrist.
`Do you see that?' he said, in a voice choking with passion, and his eyes grew large and yellow all in a moment, as he pointed with a trembling finger at a small white thing lying under the tree.
`It's only a rattle,' Alice said, after a careful examination of the little white thing. `Not a rattle-snake, you know,' she added hastily, thinking that he was frightened: `only an old rattle--quite old and broken.'
`I knew it was!' cried Tweedledum, beginning to stamp about wildly and tear his hair. `It's spoilt, of course!' Here he looked at Tweedledee, who immediately sat down on the ground, and tried to hide himself under the umbrella.
Alice laid her hand upon his arm and said, in a soothing tone, `You needn't be so angry about an old rattle.'
`But it isn't old!' Tweedledum cried, in a greater fury than ever. `It's new, I tell you--I bought it yesterday--my nice NEW RATTLE!' and his voice rose to a perfect scream.
All this time Tweedledee was trying his best to fold up the umbrella, with himself in it: which was such an extraordinary thing to do, that it quite took off Alice's attention from the angry brother. But he couldn't quite succeed, and it ended in his rolling over, bundling up in the umbrella, with only his head out: and there he lay, opening and shutting his mouth and his large eyes--`looking more like a fish than anything else,' Alice thought.
`Of course you agree to have a battle?' Tweedledum said in a calmer tone.
`I suppose so,' the other sulkily replied, as he crawled out of the umbrella: `only she must help us to dress up, you know.'
So the two brothers went off hand-in-hand into the wood, and returned in a minute with their arms full of things--such as bolsters, blankets, hearth-rugs, table-cloths, dish-covers, and coal-scuttles. `I hope you're a good hand at pinning and tying strings?' Tweedledum remarked. `Every one of these things has got to go on, somehow or other.'
Alice said afterwards she had never seen such a fuss made about anything in all her life--the way those two bustled about--and the quantity of things they put on--and the trouble they gave her in tying strings and fastening buttons--`Really they'll be more like bundles of old clothes than anything else, by the time they're ready!' she said to herself, as she arranged a bolster round the neck of Tweedledee, `to keep his head from being cut off,' as he said.
`You know,' he added very gravely, `it's one of the most serious things that can possibly happen to one in a battle--to get one's head cut off.'
Alice laughed loud: but she managed to turn it into a cough, for fear of hurting his feelings.
`Do I look very pale?' said Tweedledum, coming up to have his helmet tied on. (He called it a helmet, though it certainly looked much more like a saucepan.)
`Well--yes--a little,' Alice replied gently.
`I'm very brave, generally,' he went on in a low voice: `only to-day I happen to have a headache.'
`And I've got a toothache!' said Tweedledee, who had overheard the remark. `I'm far worse than you!'
`Then you'd better not fight to-day,' said Alice, thinking it a good opportunity to make peace.
`We must have a bit of a fight, but I don't care about going on long,' said Tweedledum. `What's the time now?'
Tweedledee looked at his watch, and said `Half-past four.'
`Let's fight till six, and then have dinner,' said Tweedledum.
`Very well,' the other said, rather sadly: `and she can watch us--only you'd better not come veryclose,' he added: `I generally hit every thing I can see--when I get really excited.'
`And I hit everything within reach,' cried Tweedledum, `whether I can see it or not!'
Alice laughed. `You must hit the trees pretty often, I should think,' she said.
Tweedledum looked round him with a satisfied smile. `I don't suppose,' he said, `there'll be a tree left standing, for ever so far round, by the time we've finished!'
`And all about a rattle!' said Alice, still hoping to make them a little ashamed of fighting for such a trifle.
`I shouldn't have minded it so much,' said Tweedledum, `if it hadn't been a new one.'
`I wish the monstrous crow would come!' thought Alice.
`There's only one sword, you know,' Tweedledum said to his brother: `but you can have the umbrella -- it's quite as sharp. Only we must begin quick. It's getting as dark as it can.'
`And darker,' said Tweedledee.
It was getting dark so suddenly that Alice thought there must be a thunderstorm coming on. `What a thick black cloud that is!' she said. `And how fast it comes! Why, I do believe it's got wings!'
`It's the crow!' Tweedledum cried out in a shrill voice of alarm; and the two brothers took to their heels and were out of sight in a moment.
Alice ran a little way into the wood, and stopped under a large tree. `It can never get at me here,' she thought: `it's far too large to squeeze itself in among the trees. But I wish it wouldn't flap its wings so -- it makes quite a hurricane in the wood -- here's somebody's shawl being blown away!'
A U.S. transport helicopter takes off from Baghdad's Green Zone. (AP/Vadim Ghirda)
by Mark Silva
For some time now, President Bush has refused to talk about any "timelines'' for withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Iraq - vetoing war-spending bills approved by Congress with timelines included and chiding lawmakers for playing generals.
But now the White is ready to talk about timelines - while inserting that long-held caveat that American forces will deploy in accordance with "conditions on the ground" - and in fact is talking about them in very general terms today, following a secure videoconference between Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
And the White House asserted today that these will not be "arbitrary'' timelines, which is what the president has accused Democratic leaders in Congress of proposing.
Yet even the discussion of a "horizon,'' which is the term included in a statement from the White House today, is likely to figure into the war debate in the presidential campaign underway.
Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the GOP's presumptive nominee, is certain to take this word as sign of the "success'' of the surge in U.S. forces that Bush ordered into Iraq last year and has since largely withdrawn. Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, the Democratic candidate calling for a withdrawal of forces in a 16-month timeframe after his election, is likely to amplify his call for a redeployment of U.S. forces to Afghanistan, where violence has increased - as he embarks this weekend on a tour taking him to both war fronts.
"In the area of security cooperation, the president and the prime minister agreed that improving conditions should allow for the agreements now under negotiation to include a general time horizon for meeting aspirational goals,'' the White House said today of the long-distance meeting that Bush and Maliki held, curiously near the eve of Obama's own voyage. This includes "the resumption of Iraqi security control in their cities and provinces and the further reduction of U.S. combat forces from Iraq.''
White House Press Secretary Dana Perino also was careful to note: "The president and prime minister agreed that the goals would be based on continued improving conditions on the ground and not an arbitrary date for withdrawal.''
The leaders, attempting to negotiate an temporary agreement for future military assistance in Iraq, held what the White House called a "regularly scheduled secure video conference.'' They spoke of "a range of matters including the improving security situation and the performance of Iraqi Security Forces across Iraq.
"They also discussed ongoing initiatives to follow security gains with Iraqi investment in its people, infrastructure, cities, and towns, which will be aided by a $21 billion supplemental budget now before the Iraqi parliament,'' Perino said in a statement released in Arizona, where the president was traveling today.
"In the context of these improving political, economic, and security conditions, the president and the prime minister discussed the ongoing negotiations to establish a normalized bilateral relationship between Iraq and the United States,'' the press secretary said. "The leaders agreed on a common way forward to conclude these negotiations as soon as possible, and noted in particular the progress made toward completing a broad strategic framework agreement that will build on the Declaration of Principles signed last November, and include areas of cooperation across many fields, including economics, diplomacy, health, culture, education, and security.''
They also marked "the return of the final surge brigade to the United States this month, and the ongoing transition from a primary combat role for U.S. forces to an over-watch role, which focuses on training and advising Iraqi forces, and conducting counter-terror operations in support of those forces.''
All of this, the White House maintains, is evidence of the surge's success.
"This transition and the subsequent reduction in U.S. forces from Iraq is a testament to the improving capacity of Iraq's security forces and the success of joint operations that were initiated under the new strategy put in place by the president and the prime minister in January 2007,'' the press secretary said.
Posted by Mark Silva on July 18, 2008 11:26 AM
By MATTHEW LEE – 2 days ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — A top U.S. diplomat heading to Geneva has no plans to meet separately with Iran's chief nuclear negotiator, but the mere presence of the Bush administration official at talks between the Iranian negotiator and representatives of other world powers will be a sharp break with past administration policy.
William Burns, America's third highest-ranking diplomat, will attend talks with the Iranian envoy, Saeed Jalili, in Switzerland on Saturday. The talks are aimed at persuading Iran to halt activities that could lead to the development of atomic weapons. It will be the first time such a high-ranking U.S. official has attended such talks.
Official contacts between Iran and the United States are extremely rare and although Washington is part of a six-nation effort to get Iran to stop enriching and reprocessing uranium, the administration has shunned contacts with Tehran on the matter.
At the White House, press secretary Dana Perino took pains to emphasize that the U.S. participation in the meeting should not be considered a negotiation. She called it a new tactic by the administration but said the substance of the White House's position has not changed.
"Our condition remains the same: There will not be any negotiations unless they suspend their uranium enrichment," Perino said.
Perino referred to the weekend meeting as a "one-time U.S. participation." She said the role of the United States will be to listen.
U.S. contact with Iran has recently been limited only to discussions about the security situation in Iraq, where Washington accuses Iran of supporting insurgents. The two countries have not had diplomatic relations since the hostage crisis at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran after the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran.
Saturday's meeting comes at a time of acutely heightened tensions between the United States and Iran, particularly after Iranian missile tests last week prompted President Bush's top aides to warn that the United States would defend its friends and interests in the Middle East.
The tensions with Iran have spilled over into the U.S. presidential campaign.
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Iran's missile tests highlight the need for direct diplomacy as well as tougher threats of economic sanctions and strong incentives to persuade Tehran to change its behavior. John McCain, the Republican seeking the presidency, said the tests demonstrated a need for effective missile defense, including missile defense in Europe and the defense system the U.S. plans with the Czech Republic and Poland.
The gathering in Geneva will be led by European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana, who is seeking a definitive answer from the Iranians to an offer of incentives that the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and Germany presented last month.
The package of incentives was accompanied by a letter from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the foreign ministers of the other five countries and sets out a scenario in which Iran would get a temporary reprieve from economic and financial sanctions in exchange for freezing its enrichment activities.
Preliminary negotiations over a permanent halt could then begin, although the United States would not join them until after Iran agrees to fully suspend uranium enrichment, which can produce the fuel needed to make nuclear bombs.
Iran has responded to the offer through the European Union but has indicated it has no plans to stop enriching uranium — the key demand. But there are hopes that Iran may refine its response at Saturday's meeting.
Asked if the White House is seeing signs of progress privately, Perino said: "There are some things that we know that we wouldn't comment on publicly. But we believe that now's the right time for us to press them on the incentives package. I think I'll have to leave it at that."
Perino said the meeting will serve to sharpen the contrast for the Iranian people of life under the current regime there, compared with the opportunities they could have if Iran accepts the incentives deal. The United States is taking part to underscore its commitment to solving the nuclear standoff diplomatically, and to make clear that Iran will face further sanctions if it does not comply, she said.
Press Briefing by Dana Perino
Last update: 3:01 p.m. EDT July 16, 2008
WASHINGTON, Jul 16, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
12:39 P.M. EDT
MS. PERINO: I just realized I have nothing to start with. (Laughter.)
Q We could start with Iran, the U.S. meeting with the Iranian envoy. You said today that was a one-time U.S. participation. You're ruling out any further contacts like this?
MS. PERINO: At this point, I don't know of any others. And the State Department certainly described it as a one-time meeting. This is a -- Mr. Solana from the European Union has an already scheduled meeting with the Iranians to get their response to the incentives package that we provided to them about a month ago. And Under Secretary Burns from the State Department will attend that meeting, along with the P5-plus-1, which are our allies in the international community who remain united in the position that Iran must halt its -- I should say suspend its nuclear uranium enrichment. And so, in that regard, our strategy and our goal has remained unchanged.
This is different that we have not participated in one of these meetings beforehand, but we believe it's a smart step to underscore the seriousness that we want to solve this issue diplomatically.
Q Let me follow up on what you just said, that you haven't done this before. Why haven't you? If it's all right now, why haven't you been willing to do it before?
MS. PERINO: We have been working with the international community, the P5-plus-1, the permanent Security Council members plus Germany, on a series of U.N. Security Council resolutions, the third of which we just released about a month ago. And we also got that resolution out -- I'm sorry, not just the resolution, but the incentives package out far and wide for all of the public to see, including the people of Iran, for whom we want to have a better relationship with.
Our beef is with the regime itself. We haven't done so before because the timing wasn't right to do so. We believe the timing is right now to go and underscore the unity of the international community that Iran must suspend its nuclear uranium enrichment, and then we can talk about negotiations from there.
The incentives package is quite generous, but it's only able to be realized if they meet the conditions that we have long held not just here in the United States, but with our partners as well.
Q So it's just a question of the timing wasn't right, but now it is?
MS. PERINO: Now we have a new incentives package where we will go and be able to sharpen the contrast between what the Iranian people could expect from a more open Iran if they were to suspend its enrichment, but also to clarify the consequences for the Iranians if they don't take us up on the incentives package. There are -- there's two tracks. There is an incentives package, or there's a disincentives package. And the Iranians have a choice to make, and that's why we're going to go and press the issue.
Q What's the disincentive?
MS. PERINO: The disincentives are the sanctions if they don't accept the offer.
Q But you're saying this isn't negotiated? Is this negotiating with the Iranians?
MS. PERINO: Our principle remains the same, and the strategy and the goal remain the same, that they must halt the enrichment of uranium in order for there to be negotiations. And Secretary Rice has long said that that is her position, that if they were to suspend, that Secretary Rice would meet her counterpart anyplace, any time, and start to have negotiations, once it was verified by the IAEA that they had suspended. Nothing has changed in that regard.
Q Well, how can you say nothing has changed if you're sending over Bill Burns to even sit there? I mean, that certainly gives the Iranians --
MS. PERINO: -- different tactic. I said that the substance remains the same, but this is a new tactic. And we believe that -- this follows up on another new tactic that we used with Iran this summer when we sent over the incentives package, which is that Secretary Rice signed the letter, along with the P5-plus-1. The next step is for the political directors, of which Under Secretary Burns is one, representing Secretary Rice, will join in attendance with his partners at this meeting to receive the response from the Iranians.
Q Why is this different from what Senator Obama has suggested, sitting down and negotiating?
MS. PERINO: Well, our condition remains the same that there will not be any negotiation unless they suspend their uranium enrichment.
Q And you just flat out say this is not negotiating, even though there's someone sitting there in the room with the Iranians?
MS. PERINO: The underlying -- absolutely, because he's going there as a part of the international community showing their unity when it comes to the underlying fundamental principle, which is that there will not be any negotiations unless Iran suspends its nuclear -- uranium enrichment.
Q Can you understand why people might look at what's happening now and go back and think about what the President said in the Mideast about those who negotiate with terrorists or talk to terrorists --
MS. PERINO: As I just said --
Q -- as an appeaser?
MS. PERINO: As I said, there is no negotiation here. We are going there. Under Secretary Burns will be there as a part of the international community showing our unison that we are going to provide two paths for the Iranians from which to choose -- one, that they could accept the incentives package, and then if it's verified that they have halted their uranium enrichment, then there will be negotiations. And that's what I would seek to explain to the American people.
Q Just one last one -- I won't hog it here -- but you don't see that for the Iranian regime, this has got to be a pretty big deal, finally getting someone from the U.S. even sitting down there.
MS. PERINO: I think it shows the seriousness from which we've been trying to tell all of you for many months, which is that we want to solve this issue diplomatically. We seek to do so. We are going to continue to work with our international partners in unison, which is what we are going to do on Saturday. But the fundamental, underlying principle is that there will not be any negotiations unless Iran suspends its enrichment of uranium.
Elaine.
Q I know this morning you said that the ballistic missile tests that were done by Iran last week did not play a part in this decision to send Under Secretary Burns to Switzerland, but surely there must be some effect on what's happening on the diplomatic side, when Iran decides to flex its military muscle in that way. Are you saying that there's no link at all?
MS. PERINO: I'll have to refer you to the State Department in terms of all the decision-making that went into it. The President does support Secretary Rice's decision here to continue to show the unity. But in regards to specific tests that they did, obviously we said that those weren't helpful. They were against the U.N. Security Council resolutions and their international obligations. But that underscores again why it's important for the international community to show unity and say that there is a path of incentives in which we recognize your right for peaceful nuclear power; we've provided a path for you to get that. We've also provided paths throughout the incentives package for further discussions in international community integration.
But there's also a different path, which is, if they don't accept this offer, one, there will not be negotiations; and two, there will be additional sanctions.
Q How concerned is the U.S. -- obviously the President has only got a limited time left in office, there's going to be a period of transition -- that, in the interim, there will be time for Iran to essentially move forward on its nuclear program --
MS. PERINO: We've been concerned about that for a long time, but it doesn't -- Iran's pursuit of a nuclear weapon -- the question of their pursuit of a nuclear weapon goes back a long ways. And we're not certainly watching the clock in that regard. This President has been working with his international partners on a multilateral basis to come together, in unison, to call on the Iranians to suspend their enrichment of uranium, and if they were to do so and it could be verified, then we will start to have discussions with them. But up and until then, we will not.
So this meeting on Saturday is a chance for us to receive their response and for us to underscore the contrast between what the Iranians could expect from accepting the incentives package and what could be the consequences if they don't, which would be additional sanctions and no negotiations.
Yes, Jeremy.
Q The Iranians are already signaling that they are not planning to make any major concessions at this meeting. How quickly is the U.S. and the other members of the P5-plus-1 to move forward on sanctions?
MS. PERINO: On sanctions? I think we need to let the meeting on Saturday take place. And obviously the political directors, when they get together, will have a chance to communicate with one another about the next steps. And I think they're already sort of planning that, but they want to hear from them. And I think that even though you get signals from the Iranians, it isn't always -- you often get mixed messages. And so let's wait and hear from Mr. Jalili on Saturday and then we will provide our response after that. But I don't expect it immediately following that meeting, Jeremy.
Sheryl.
Q Dana, you said the President does support Secretary Rice's decision. Is it Secretary Rice's decision to send Mr. Burns, or is it the President's decision?
MS. PERINO: Well, she came forward with the recommendation that the President agreed with, Sheryl. I would not try to separate them. But she has been the lead negotiator with the P5-plus-1 on this issue, so that's why I said it that way.
Q You talk, Dana, about mixed messages from the Iranians. Is there some light at the end of the tunnel that the administration sees that has prompted sitting down with the Iranians when you haven't done it before? Is there something that you're seeing privately that the world is not seeing publicly, after ballistic missile tests, Iranian leaders saying they're going to continue their uranium enrichment and essentially thumb their nose at the U.N.?
MS. PERINO: Well, there are some things that we know that we wouldn't comment on in public, certainly, but we believe that now is the right time for us to press them on the incentives package that we have provided. And so I think I would have to leave it at that.
Q So you have the Obama campaign on one side welcoming this, saying that the administration is moving toward their point of view. You have -- and former Ambassador John Bolton saying that this is a major flop for the administration and that essentially the administration is rolling over to the Iranians.
MS. PERINO: I'm not going to respond to either one, but I'm going to restate our view, which is that our longstanding, fundamental principle has been that Iran has to suspend its uranium enrichment, or else we will not negotiate. That remains the same. There's nothing changed in that regard.
Q I'm going to change the subject whenever we're ready.
MS. PERINO: Any more on Iran? Okay.
Q Yes, just one last thing. The one-shot deal supposedly gives some sort of wink or some sort of hint of progress without doing as much as you want, is there -- are you ruling out a second time around with Burns or somebody else? Or is this just one --
MS. PERINO: It's hard to predict the future, Roger. I think that the way we see it now, that this meeting, in terms of receiving a response from the Iranians on this incentive package, is going to be a one-time meeting. And then we'll cross other bridges when we come to it, but the underlying principle remains the same, that they have to suspend their uranium enrichment or else we won't negotiate, and that there are disincentives if they don't accept the package.
Q Understood, but there's a door you leave open to a second meeting --
MS. PERINO: I think it's impossible to predict the future, but in terms of this meeting, they're calling it a one-time meeting.
Olivier. Still on Iran?
Q Yes. Did any of the other P5-plus-1 countries appeal to the United States to join this meeting, or was this entirely a decision made by Secretary Rice?
MS. PERINO: I haven't been a part of the -- I haven't been a part of any of those discussions, but I think that they would welcome the fact that the United States, one, signed the letter -- had Secretary Rice sign the letter with them back about a month ago, and that we continue to walk in lockstep with them when it comes to this issue.
Q And tensions between the United States and Iran are blamed partly for high oil prices. Did that factor in the decision at all?
MS. PERINO: No.
Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, Bill. Ann.
Q Will Ambassador Burns make public -- make to the Iranians a list of sanctions that they have not seen before, or consequences that are strictly American consequences, or are they on behalf of the EU and the other --
MS. PERINO: I'm going to refer you to the State Department. Sean McCormack, my counterpart over at the State Department, already had a lengthy briefing in which
-- I didn't get the chance to see the whole thing, but he may have been asked that question. I don't know specifically. But he laid out what the role of Under Secretary Burns is. And I don't think -- the way you describe it, I don't think that at all is something that he's going to be doing.
Q This morning you said that the United States would have -- would clarify the consequences of Iran not --
MS. PERINO: All I mean by that is that we will make sure that it's understood that if they do not accept this very generous incentives package that there are consequences, and those consequences would be sanctions -- additional sanctions.
Q And would those be United States sanctions or would they be on behalf of --
MS. PERINO: It could be a mix, I don't know. I'm not going to prejudge them.
Anyone else on Iran? Bill.
Q On Friday you put out a statement outlining your objections to the housing bill as currently constituted. Has there been a discussion between the White House and either House of Congress about modifying it? Is there movement? What can you tell us?
MS. PERINO: Yes, Secretary Paulson and Secretary Preston at HUD continue to work with members of Congress, as do members of our team here from Legislative Affairs, in keeping -- and they are keeping the President informed as to the state of negotiations over the housing bill. We have a lot of hope that we'll be able to get this done -- get this bill to the President's desk in a form that he could sign before the end of the month.
Q Before the end of --
MS. PERINO: Well, before the end of the month -- next week. I've been a little bit messed up on my time frame ever since Japan, I keep thinking it's the third week of July -- or the fourth week of July -- it's the third.
So the -- Secretary Paulson, I believe, met with them yesterday, members of the Congress, talking not only about this urgency he feels he needs in terms of the Fannie and Freddie package that he asked for on Sunday night, but also the importance of the provisions that are in the bill, including some of the objections that we have, which is the CDBG money, community development block grant money.
Q What are the objections? Can you spell those out? Why would the President veto this?
MS. PERINO: Well, I would look -- I don't know -- I don't have all of them at my fingertips. The large one, and the main one, is that the bill as passed by the -- either the House or the Senate has $4 billion in it that would go to states to buy already foreclosed properties, which we believe does not help homeowners, but helps banks. And we actually think that it's unnecessary to have in the bill.
So we're hopeful that they would be able to strip out that provision and then pass it, because it has very good pieces that we've been asking for for a long time, like the GSE regulator for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and also the modernization of the Federal Housing Administration; plus, we have the vehicle now to get the Secretary Paulson requests attached to it. So we're hopeful that we'll be able to get that done next week.
Q What Secretary Paulson requests are you referring to?
MS. PERINO: On Sunday night, Secretary Paulson, in his announcement, said there are three things that he needed in terms of authorities to be able to address the problems that are -- the potential problems with the GSEs.
Q Would the President veto the bill if it didn't include the Paulson requests?
MS. PERINO: I've heard of no change in terms of the -- oh, you mean, this is in terms -- I thought you were talking about --
Q If it doesn't include Paulson's requests for --
MS. PERINO: I can't imagine that Congress is going to go forward and finish a housing bill that doesn't include the urgent requests of Secretary Paulson, because I believe that we're all equally concerned about the economy and so I think they understand the urgency of it. I just can't imagine that they would pass it without it.
Q And you expressed optimism this morning that you'd be able to get it next week.
MS. PERINO: Sure.
Q Can you be more specific about why you're optimistic?
MS. PERINO: I would just say that the feedback that we're getting from Capitol Hill from members of Congress is that they do believe that they'll be able to get something done and to the President. And we are hopeful that they get it to us in a form that he can sign, which would include stripping out that CDBG money.
Peter.
Q Same issue, and another follow-up, too, Dana. Following up on something the President said yesterday -- he said the administration always moves quickly when it sees economic weaknesses. Why didn't it move more quickly on this Fannie and Freddie thing? These bad loans and their impact on these two mortgage heavyweights has been well known for a long, long time.
MS. PERINO: I would say that what we have done in terms of what we are able to do through the executive branch has been done in terms of some of these pieces. But we have been asking for a GSE regulator since 2003, and Congress hasn't moved forward on it. We increased the urgency and turned up the concern on August 31st of 2007 -- nearly a year ago -- asking Congress to take action on this problem.
So we have been leading on this issue. We've been trying to get Congress to agree to do it. And now we're in an urgent situation, and that's why I say I can't imagine that they would go home for the August recess without getting this done.
Q Well, the urgent situation emerged before last Saturday, before last weekend. Why did it take that long to come up with --
MS. PERINO: Secretary Paulson took action in regards to those urgent authorities that he said he needed when he thought it was appropriate and needed them. I don't think it would have been appropriate for him to have acted sooner. But I also would point you back to the fact that we've been waiting for Congress to pass a housing bill that everybody seemed to think, from both sides of the aisle, needed to be done as of last August when the President first asked them to pass it. But now we're nearly a year to the day when the President asked for it, and the housing situation has not improved.
We do think we'll be able to pull out of this towards the end of the year, but it's going to take a while, and we think that the legislation would certainly help, especially in sending a signal to the market.
Q Pull out of what by the end of the year?
MS. PERINO: I would say just the housing crisis or the downturn that we've had in the housing market.
Q And then one other follow-up on something I asked you about earlier this week. What were you able to find out about White House guidelines for fundraising for the Bush library?
MS. PERINO: I know that nobody -- yes, I did follow up on that. I did find out there's no connection between the library and actions in the administration. Officials are not allowed to be a part of it. And President Bush has asked that members of his foundation do not inform him about anyone who has written a check, or decided not to write a check, until after he's no longer President.
Q And what's the word for people who are either officially soliciting for the foundation or freelancing because they're friends of the President, in terms of linking any donations to any official actions --
MS. PERINO: If you're referring to the Steve Payne situation, obviously --
Q Payne or anyone else.
MS. PERINO: -- we would say that that was inappropriate, and only people who are authorized to be a part of -- that are a part of the foundation and are acting on behalf of the President are allowed to do that. But no one is allowed to try to say that there would be official action done under this administration in connection to any contribution that they may or may not make to the library.
Q Dana, follow on that. Does the President know Steve Payne?
MS. PERINO: I think -- yes, he believes that he would have met him before. I don't think that he knows him all that well, but he has met him before. Certainly he's been -- Steve Payne has been somebody who's been involved in Texas politics for a long time and been a supporter of the Republican Party. So he knows who he is. I would repeat that he was never a employee of the White House, but he had been a part of advance trips in the past. We use a lot of volunteers when it comes to advance.
Q Does Mr. Payne have any ability to facilitate people getting in contact with this White House? Does he have access to access?
MS. PERINO: Access to access? I would -- possibly. I don't know, in terms of -- I've never met him so I don't know in particular.
Q You don't know if he could carry through on promises to help people get in touch with people at the White House?
MS. PERINO: In terms of -- look, I'm sure that he probably knows a lot of people throughout the administration, given his history. But it would be inappropriate to say that he could -- for anybody to say that they could get anything done or any meeting done in exchange for a contribution to the library, or to the party, or anything else.
Q Thank you, Dana. Two questions. Georgia has a new law allowing residents who pass criminal background checks to carry concealed weapons onto mass transit and into state parks and other locations. But Atlanta Airport officials say they are exempt from that law. And my question: Does the President agree with the state, or the airport authorities?
MS. PERINO: I haven't talked to him about a specific Georgia -- Atlanta, Georgia issue, so I don't have anything for you on it.
Q Okay. A spokesman at the Democratic National Convention office in Denver yesterday said that he could not confirm that convention speakers will include President Clinton. And my question: Since I presume that President Bush believes that such national conventions of both parties should so welcome his fellow President, we can conclude that he believes President Clinton should be welcomed as a national convention speaker with no attempt by anyone to direct what President Clinton should and should not say, right?
MS. PERINO: I really believe it's none of our business, so I wouldn't comment.
Q It's none of your -- but he's --
MS. PERINO: It's clearly none of our business.
Q It's a President of the United States. He's certainly concerned about all other Presidents, isn't he, Dana?
MS. PERINO: I don't think he really is thinking a lot about the Democrat Convention.
Go ahead, Jeremy.
Q The World Court is urging the U.S. to do all it can to halt the executions of five Mexicans -- that came out this morning. Do you all have any reaction at this stage on that?
MS. PERINO: Only that I know that the ICJ issued a preliminary decision. And it's something that we're reviewing now, so I don't have anything more for you on it.
Sheryl.
Q Dana, I have with me today my colleague, Umar Cheema. He's a prominent journalist in Pakistan; he's a Daniel Perle Fellow. He has a question, which I can ask on his behalf, or we can let him speak for himself --
MS. PERINO: If he'd like to, I'd be delighted.
Q Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. My question is about the introduction of bill that Senate Foreign Relations Committee introduced yesterday, seeking to triple non-military aid to Pakistan in the next five years.
MS. PERINO: Seeking to end?
Q To triple non-military aid to Pakistan.
MS. PERINO: To triple -- oh, okay.
Q And conditioning military aid with the certification of Secretary of State. I just wanted to ask whether it's a major shift in administration policy to rely more on civilian government instead of Musharraf --
MS. PERINO: I wish you would have been here yesterday, because President Bush talked a little bit about Pakistan in his press conference, in which he said Pakistan is a friend and an ally and someone that we rely on to work together on issues of counterterrorism. I'm not familiar with the legislation that was introduced yesterday, but President Bush has been very supportive of aid for Pakistan in the past -- and not just in regards to military-to-military aid, but we really think it's extremely important, especially in the FATA region, to help improve the economic condition for people in that area. I know that it's very challenging terrain -- there's not a lot of roads and there's not a lot of electricity, and therefore not a lot of commerce. But those are issues that we are trying to work together on along with the Pakistanis. So we will take a look at the legislation. I know that in the President's budget there is already aid money for those types of aid packages for Pakistan.
Q Thank you.
END 1:02 P.M. EDT
SOURCE: White House Press Office
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